Ok guys im hoping someone who has experience with a similar build can help me out. My plan is to get a well built E bike that goes about 45+ miles per hour. My plans so far is to get the Enduro frame either from Luna Cycles or maybe somwhere else you guys might be able to direct me to a seller. Then i would need a w kit, and a 72v battery with 15amps plus, or a w kit once again if any of you guys have good sellers for these items that would help. Then i would need to get a 17 inch motorcycle rim for the front, the rear should come with the kit, unless i decide to lace it myself. First thing, im five foot 6 i was wondering would the ebike enduro frame feel too big? Typically a 17 inch frame would be good for me so not sure how big that frame would be, and in that case, what size rims would you guys recommend to fit me best? I need as much advice through this build as i could get. Ive done weeks of reading and reasearch, so i have a good general idea of how things work, but it would definitely be good if i could have someone help me out step by step through this. Once i get a it all thoroughly planned out, then i could go ahead and order the parts and assemble it with pictures.
At 45+ miles per hours aerodynamics becomes the key issue. The increase in power to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as a square of the increase in speed. I.E twice as fast takes 4 times as much power. So aerodynamics needs to become a consideration.
What are your riding goals? I can hit 40 on a stock cyclone 3kW with a 18S 32 Amp-hour lipo battery pack. But this is a Trek 7.2 so my aerodynamic position is pretty good.... Which gives up comfort and control :( Let's be honest I only hit 40 for a couple of seconds at a time and I only start test runs with an empty bladder and a motorcycle helmet.
It starts to look significantly less bikish but a small fairing can make a pretty significant difference.
Or else you can just brute power it :)
Ok well put it like this if i could get it to about 40 miles per hour, that should be satisfactory, and from there i would have to do signifcant aerodynamic upgrades to get to higher speeds, so rather than getting a motor twice the size of a w motor and then have to pair that up with huge controllers and ridiculous battery size, id rather stick with a w to w motor paired with a decent controller. In other words id rather be efficient. One of my biggest concerns is to keep this as simple as i could being that i dont know in depth how motors work and so forth. That being said, im quiet honestly not finding much american retailers that are selling these high power hub motors, and the few that are, are selling them stupid expensive, when there just getting it all from china and marking up the price. As we know most of these e bike motors and kits are produced in China, and theres nothing wrong with that, there are good quality things that come from China, we cant deny that. So that being said, if you guys could, put me links to well known or decent motor kits, as well as large 72v batteries. Im estimating that ill end up spending a bit over $. So that being said can someone help me figure out part by part what and where i should get it from. Like is said, im looking to work on the Enduro frame, which i could either get from China or someone like Luna cycle and then have the bike go about 40+mph with a w to w hub motor. I honestly strongly appreciate your time and help. I just spoke to one of the salesman at a Ebike factory, and he gave me the following items which he has all in stock to complete most of my build. they are as follows
50mph is W speed
1. w motor laced is 19 inch moto rim
2. 72v26.1Ah Panasonic PF battery pack + 4a charger
3. Bluetooth programmable 72v70A controller kit incl throttle and brake levers
4. Shimano disc brakes front + rear
5. 7sp frewheel + derailleur + shifter shimano
6. Frame Electric Enduro ( black or white colour)
What do you guys think? Should i ask regarding details of the motor and battery and controller to make sure they are quality? If so what should i ask.
No problem. I don't work for Luna.
I am just a hobbiest trying to figure out how to get a foot in the door in the electric bike business. For now, that mean time spent researching, writing, building, and helping answering questions on the forum. I find that I often don't understand something until I have tried to explain it in terms someone else understands.
And yah I understand about sourcing components. I am using a home build battery pack that I built out of lipos from hobbyking until I can come up with a nice 72V li-ion pack that is both in stock and at a price I can afford :(
Without knowing brands, I can't really offer any specific component suggestions. If you are going to run things hard, (which it sounds like you tend to do) it would be worth investing in an IR thermometer and/or a multimeter with a thermal probe. The first sign of problem when pushing the limit on a electric bike is generally going to be over heating somewhere.
I own a very similar motorbike to the ones you're talking about. Had it for about two years now as my daily ride.
See here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=
There are several versions of those bikes, probably from different manufacturers. The plastics will differ as well as the shocks,and powertrain, but the main frame usually remains the same.
For what I can see on the pics, the ones you're showing are the "lesser quality" ones. The shocks are tiny, same thing goes for the brakes and the plastics look to be the cheapest so they won't like at all the UV light.
That being said, they are quite a good basis and you can do a lot with them, But you'll need to DIY a lot if you want to have something nice.
Don't get me wrong, they should work fine out of the box, but I bet they'll use the cheapest motors, cheapest controllers and cheapest batteries so don't expect something crazy or reliable.
I suggest you the following upgrades:
-look up for your motor specs
-Depending on your motor specs, see what is the best controller you can afford. I believe you should be able to go for 200Amps continuous (4-500Amps/phase) if you're lucky to have a W motor or more. Changing your controller will make a huge difference in terms of performance, but will kick your battery pretty hard so at this point you'll have to plan for a better battery.
-Go for lithium. But you'll have to find a battery with a high continuous discharge rate, which is not so easy, because the bike wil still be heavy so the controller and basically all the powertrain will have to work harder for a much longer time than an ebike would in order to reach top speed.
-Reinforce your chassis. This is vital, the welds are usually horrible and the tubes seem to be bent with a hatchet. Total garbage.
-Change your shocks, this is a must
-Change your brakes, at least the front ones, probably a must too if the bike comes equipped with floating calipers
-Put some vinyl sheets onto all your plastics. This will protect them against UVs so they won't disintegrate in 6 month.
-Change the garbage tires.
About the size, it seems to me that they are very slightly undersized compared to an equivalent 250cc. I'd say they are 90% or 95% scaled. But that might also be because the rear whell is only 16 inches.
Anyway, those bikes have flaws for sure, but they are quite a good basis to work on. Relatively lightweight, plenty of battery space, awesome looks and relatively nice and stable ride once modded. Seems overly expensive in the US though...
Thanks for the reply! Glad to see another member riding one of these bikes. Come to think of it i have already watched your youtube drag vids on the other guys thread. I almost bought a 250cc magician also.
Cheap and bad quality is my middle name so im excited to see what comes in the mail! I do have a KLS kelly controller i will probably use to get programming and regen. But yes i need to find out what motor i get on the bike first. Im hoping its atleast a w
I didnt think about the UV and the plastics but i have bought a set of ABS plastics from china for a Katana 600 i used to ride and they were the worst things ever so they will likely be similar to those. Look good from afar for a year.
What does your bike weigh? Seems like they are saying this one is only 265lbd but the sla battery is small on this version. Being under 300lbs makes me not super worried about the brakes and suspension for now, but i may say different on the first ride for all i know.
Also what did you pay over there? Since your saying $3k is expensive is US? This is the cheapest bike ive seen here
skeetab said:
Thanks for the reply! Glad to see another member riding one of these bikes. Come to think of it i have already watched your youtube drag vids on the other guys thread. I almost bought a 250cc magician also.
Yep, that was me and my friend Marcus.
skeetab said:
Cheap and bad quality is my middle name so im excited to see what comes in the mail! I do have a KLS kelly controller i will probably use to get programming and regen. But yes i need to find out what motor i get on the bike first. Im hoping its atleast a w
Let's hope it is, but there are different versions of W so let's hope it's a good one!
If you have a good W motor then you can expect to get very decent performance without having to change your motor, otherwise you'll need an upgrade. My W has plenty enough power and doesn't heat too much but it is not so far from its limit. W should give you a bit more slack.
skeetab said:
I didnt think about the UV and the plastics but i have bought a set of ABS plastics from china for a Katana 600 i used to ride and they were the worst things ever so they will likely be similar to those. Look good from afar for a year.
Use some vinyl sheet on the outside and several layers of paint in the inside if you want the plastics to be more durable, it's an easy fix and it will make your bike look better too
skeetab said:
What does your bike weigh? Seems like they are saying this one is only 265lbd but the sla battery is small on this version. Being under 300lbs makes me not super worried about the brakes and suspension for now, but i may say different on the first ride for all i know.
It used to be very heavy with the lead acid, somewhere around 170-180 kg if I recall correclty. Now that I've ditched this anchor I think it should be around 130-140kg.
About the forks and brakes, I never tried the standard fork so I cannot tell you how bad it might be, but as for brakes the ones generally fitted on bikes and scooters here are absolute garbage. They might seem fine at the beginning but after a few hard brakings they will fade totally and progressively become uneffective. But that's an easy fix anyway.
skeetab said:
Also what did you pay over there? Since your saying $3k is expensive is US? This is the cheapest bike ive seen here
Well I bought mine second hand for around 700 usd including many, many mods (analogic dashboard, nice shocks, handmade seats, full carbon wrap, custom feet rests, nicer screws and hardware, and some other stuff I forgot). But you can find some very nice bikes like this at around - USD:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?mode=view&id=
Here is the link but I'm not sure it can be accessed from outside of China, you might need a VPN:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.29.184f60d9qMwg22&id=&ns=1&abbucket=8#detail
Some bikes are even way cheaper, they generally start at around 500 bucks.
Also, those bikes probably don't comply with the regulations in your country, I don't know. They don't even comply with the regulations in China, riding them is theoretically not allowed. But somehow, selling them is.
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